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Is anyone familiar with the power levels of DVB vs. the old Analog broadcasts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.162.0.41 (talk) 14:18, 19 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I do not think listing the companies that have DVB-H products is an ad in any real way. This is useful information for anyone who wants additional information beyond the theory, and has many precedents in other pages (see e.g. the listing of H.264 hardware implementations in H264).
Nolaviz07:52, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
You are right, there are ads even on other wiki articles. In my opinion, that is wrong. Especially when the ad-like statement glorifies some quality of that product (not in this case, anyway). Cantalamessa08:19, 21 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
DVB-H+
I read the sources provided at the DVB-H+ entry and came to these conclusions:
There is nothing called DVB-H+. Nobody calls it like that. If it is to be reffered to than always only as DVB-H in S-Band.
The described system is being promoted by Alcatel and its aim is to expand DVB-H to S-Band (more specifically 2170-2200MHz) for both terrestrial and satellite mobile TV broadcasting.
It's not an official DVB standard although at the moment there is a Study Mission (basically a group asked to look into a technical feasibility of such a system) called DVB-SSP (Satellite Services to Portable Devices) headed by someone from Alcatel
the first satellite is planned to be launched around Christmas 2009 (and not in year 2008 as stated) i.e. 2 years after availability of terrestrial transmitters which are expected around Christmas 2007
planned satellite will cover only Western Europe with spot beams aimed at UK, Germany, France, Spain and Italy
Please change the entry accordingly to reflect provided comments or I'll do it in about 2 weeks. Thank you. 19:05, 25 April 2006 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.38.70 (talk • contribs)
I see you have found better infos and are more expert than me. So I think it's better that you edit the article and not me. If you haven't time to do, please tell me your sources and I'll try to do this following your suggestions.
I don't have more information than the one from the links at the entry. I just read all of them (well, I guess I must have missed the one with "DVB-H+" name in it :-). In a couple of days I'll try fix the wording, find more sources and expand the entry a little. 24.80.38.7018:14, 26 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Phone pictures
I think it would be a good idea to upload pictures of some DVB-h phones.
I have two DVB-h phones because I am a trialist, I could upload some amateur pictures also.
Please let me know —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eagle-slayor (talk • contribs) 11:44, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
DVB-H failure
From some observers [1][2][3] it has been recently pointed out that, in the countries where DVB-H was first launched, it has not gained momentum at all. Maybe due to the lack of interest of mobile users in watching a low-def TV over a few inches screen, or whatever. Any comments on this? Should we discuss about that in the main article? --Cantalamessa16:51, 20 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Are you sure that 1 milion users on a costumer base of 7 (as for H3G Italy) is a failure?
DVB_H is dead, but it may still be broadcast in a few places - It has been closed even in Nokia's home country Finland. DVB-H is hugely inefficient by modern standard. Reslfj (talk) 12:09, 8 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'll move back this article to DVB-H and make a redirect from DVB-SH. You could have discussed in this page before doing such a move: DVB-H exists, whereas the "future enhancements" may be well a redirect. --Cantalamessa (talk) 11:10, 13 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Please discuss here about the need to move this page to such a composite title: I see that DVB-SH is a different thing from DVB-H, and there may well be a redirect. --Cantalamessa (talk) 22:42, 25 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
DVB-SH is for DVB-H what 3G is for GPRS: an enhansement of the standard. Unless there is a separate article for DVB-SH or DVB-H2, I would recommend to keep it in the same page for the moment. DVB forum is not willing to make the standards competeting against each other but timprove them. DVB-SH and DVB-H2 soon are improvements of DVB-H, based on similar stacks and validated by ETSI. DVB-T is another story. Comment posted by 195.207.101.112. --Cantalamessa (talk) 08:57, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Purely from a stylistic point of view, the title should simply be "DVB-H". Even if DVB-H and DVB-SH were the same thing (or were similar enough to warrant a single article), the title should simply be "DVB-H" or "DVB-SH", with redirects as appropriate. Oli Filth(talk)22:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
DVB-H and DVB-SH are separate technical standards. Whilst DVB-SH builds on DVB-H, it should be seen as a complement for DVB-H, rather than a replacement. DVB-H is designed to be used in UHF (and VHF) frequencies, whilst DVB-SH is targeted at S-band spectrum. Whilst the information in this article is largely accurate, the title is mis-leading. It should either be titled DVB-H and DVB-SH, or consideration should be given to breaking it into two separate articles. Eoghan1 14:55 CET 30/01/2008
This comment is not correct. DVB-SH supports all range of frequencies up to 3GHz. DVB-SH supports S-band but ALSO UHF. BMCO forum published results about DVB-SH in UHF with gain improvement of at least 5.5DBs to DVB-H. Comment posted by 195.207.101.112. --Cantalamessa (talk) 08:57, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with this comment and since i am not from Vaasa university, Finland (;-)), I would recommend to mention DVB-H and DVB-SH in the title. Comment posted by 195.207.101.112. --Cantalamessa (talk) 08:57, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I also agree with this last comment. DVB-H and DVB-SH should be seen in the same title. DVB-SH is definitely an improvement of DVB-H in the UHF frequencies. I confirm BMCO endorsed it.andytv_2009 19:55 CET 30/01/2008 —Preceding comment was added at 03:05, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
No, in our opinion the two different names should not stay in the same title, since the majority of the standards reported in wikipedia are done in this way. You can well use a redirect from one term to another. If there is such improvement in using DVB-SH over DVB-H, this means that the two standards are quite different. Moreover, DVB-H exists and is operating in a number of countries, whereas DVB-SH is yet to come. Yet, I don't understand the Vaasa university matter: it is clear that a number of TLC industry insiders are trying to use this article to pump up one standard or another, but we cannot let do this. --Cantalamessa (talk) 09:06, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I think this discussion should continue, but in the mean time I am boldly moving to DVB-H and DVB-SH because "evolution to DVB-SH" is a verb phrase. At present this article is very much about the standards and has hardly three sentences about the transitions between them. MilesAgain (talk) 06:48, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you and I disagreed with Cantalamessa. DVB-H is widely deployed in Italy but nowhere else. In Philippines, Smart indeed launched a DVB-H service with Nokia but in Manila only and with 7 transmitters. Same story for VTC, with 9 transmitters. Same story for U-Mobile, with 7 transmitters. For U-Mobile and Smart, the regulation even disallowed the operators at the end to commercialize the service since the licenses have not been issued yet. In the mean time, DVB-SH is launched with ICO in US and S2M is going to deploy it in 19 countries. I also read that a DVB-SH trial with more than 200 transmitters is under deployment in Torino, Italy.
So again, I disagree with the "DVB-SH is yet to come" and I fully agree with MilesAgain. We should continue this discussion and let appear both standard name in the title. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.208.192.176 (talk) 01:43, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I wonder if we can accept the fact that
a single-purpouse account has modified the title of this article, and he is not here to support its choice
Only one signed user has disagreed (with only one contribution to wikipedia, this one!)
Anonymous unverified users keep coming again to show their idea
So, if DVB-H is a failure, we should move this to DVB-SH. Else, if DVB-SH is still in testing phase, we should move this to DVB-H, since it is fully operational in Europe. --Cantalamessa (talk) 11:08, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
DVB-H is not a failure and DVB-SH is no longer in testing phase as well. DVB forum has been working on 2 enhansements of DVB-H. One is DVB-H2 which is going to be fully approved probably this year (with DVB-T2). The other is DVB-SH which was approved last year and is no longer in testing phase. However DVB forum is not willing to make those standards competing each other. That is was they are based on same stacks and fully compliants. That means it would be possible to complete a DVB-H network with DVB-SH or DVB-H2 repeaters. That is the reason they have to appear in the same page for the moment. It is also important to inform the readers of improvements. If you are interested, I can provide you the ETSI references for DVB-H and DVB-SH. You would be surprised. I am happy to discuss longer with you and I hope the discussion will be handled with neutrality and objectivity. --steppu75 (talk) 15:08, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I don't want to be an oppositor against the merging of titles, but I notice that such a move should be discussed before, and after consensus is achieved, done. The opposite happened. Since wikipedia is not a primary source, we need to have clear references to ETSI or other technical pages from where it appears that DVB-H and DVB-SH are the same thing, otherwise I'm afraid we cannot keep them joined. --Cantalamessa (talk) 18:20, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
DVB-H (EN 302 304) and DVB-SH (EN 302 583) are separate standards, but it is clear that they are closely related. One of two options should be chosen: 1) separate articles about each standard, with appropriate inter-linking; or 2) cover both standards in one article, but with a different title, e.g. DVB-H and DVB-SH, or DVB Mobile TV Standards. Eoghan1 (talk) 11:22, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with you and I think DVB Mobile TV Standards is a very good title. If there is no extra comment on this, we will then modify the title based on your proposal.steppu75 (talk) 14:22, 5 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.208.199.97 (talk) [reply]
Sorry but Eoghan1, steppu75 and 2 anonymous users agreed on the opposite. MilesAgain also proposed an alternative title you disagreed. I also realized that one user that was also in line with steppu75 was removed from this discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.95.213.202 (talk) 13:17, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK, you're right, but all stems from the fact that the article name has been moved without consensus. Anonymous IP may not be taken into account, since you cannot know whether there is one or many minds behind. --Cantalamessa (talk) 20:31, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Why not split the article?
Please explain to me why the article can not be devided into two articles. The DVB-H article may have a short DVB-SH section, that is refering to "Main article: DVB-SH". Mange01 (talk) 00:19, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that there is someone interested in using wikipedia as a promotional medium for his preferred standard. This whole thing is becoming ridiculous: there is a consensus in reverting to two different articles, but we all are afraid to set-up an edit-war against anonymi. --Cantalamessa (talk) 10:32, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
well, first you are wrong, secondly your article was full of technical misleading informations (even in DVB-H)before I corrected it and third I am sorry to say but the one that is defending DVB-H and promoting it is yourself. I even wondered whether you were working for Nokia or any telecom operator that already invested in a DVB-H network. For your information, I am not working for any Telco nor Network providers. So the only think I can promote, and i am proud of it, is the improvement of technologies.
I would then recommend you few things since you seem to spend most of your time in wikipedia:
1- you check with ETSI for DVB-H and DVB-SH
2- you make an alternative proposal that does not mislead the readers and provide them a true and fair information.
3- this is indeed not a democracy and this is ridiculus to count pros and cons. Either we all agree on something or it is going nowhere.Being aggressiv as you are does not solve any issue. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steppu75 (talk • contribs) 11:23, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Steppu, I think you were addressing me, though not directly did my name. I'm not aggressive:
you have changed the page title without consensus
you have decided to give a non standard-title to this article
you have not discussed in the talk your change immediately after doing it, but only when you have seen that there is a number of people that does not exactly think the same thing as you.
Unfortunately, I am not the author of this article, so I cannot defend it since I am not responsible of the technical details written in it. BTW, I don't think that there have ever been bad errors in it. What I see now, are a couple of figures [6][7] (actually, they seem to be screen captures from some sort of presentation), which I think are not appropriate for wikipedia, since they contain logos which are trademarked and report BER vs. C/N results of which we do not know the source: remember that wikipedia is not a primary source. Worst, I'm not from Nokia or other TLC operators, at least I could have been paid for this :-) I don't see Nokia cited in the standard description (only in service launches and HW), whereas Alcatel is presented directly in the DVB-SH section and in the service tests ongoing in Italy, also. I checked the ETSI link you provided [8]: well, it says that "...It (DVB-SH) complements the existing DVB-H physical layer standard and like its sister specification (DVB-H) uses the DVB IP Datacast (IPDC) set of content delivery, electronic service guide and service purchase and protection standards ....". DVB-SH has a joint satellite-terrestrial mode, whereas DVB-H is only terrestrial. --Cantalamessa (talk) 12:04, 9 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
indeed DVB-SH is an evolution of DVB-H with possibility of satellite-terrestrial mode. That is not new and is indeed a huge advantage and it is in line with the fact DVB-SH supports up to 3GHz.
Note that the BER vs C/N results come from BMCO and are public.
Actually SFR in France handled a field trial (6 months) and the results were better than the theory with a 7dbs gain on DVB-H.
It is good anyway that the description of DVB-SH is in line with what is publicly published by the dvb entity. Note also there were referenced (5 & 6).
By the way I disagree on your way to separate DVB-S from DVB-S2. It is not in line with what dvb forum is recommending.But this is another story... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.93.152.11 (talk) 04:56, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, yes, and very probably we will also split DVB-T2 from DVB-T, as soon as the new standard will stand on its own. Clearly, you cannot remove the copyviol template in the main text: that text should be modified and differentiated from the DVB report or we are forced to delete it. --Cantalamessa (talk) 22:27, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have no difficulty in splitting those articles, but remember that the main problem is the TITLE of this article. Moreover, you can't use text copypasted from DVB website, you cannot put again links that are not working, you cannot remove the disputed title template. --Cantalamessa (talk) 11:44, 24 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
then please do a DVB-H2 & DVB-T2 article, then I will do a DVB-SH one. the DVB-SH definitition is public and the text was a little bit modified. Besides it is public. How do you want to change this: "DVB-SH includes features such as turbo coding for forward error correction and a highly flexible interleaver" . This is purely ridiculus as anyway that text is referenced. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Steppu75 (talk • contribs) 01:02, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It is not sufficient to say that a text is public, it must be either public domain (which is not, I guess) or GFDL-compatible. You cannot remove the disputed title template. Instead of reverting, verify that the external links are working. --Cantalamessa (talk) 13:26, 25 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I have renamed the article to Dvb-h, and moved some of the material to a new article on DVB-SH, according to the voting. I have also tried to remove formulations like "impressive improvements" - we should use as boring language as possible since this is a dictionary. :) I hope user Steppu75 is not too disappointed. We need your knowledge and contributions. The Dvb-h#DVB-SH section is empty but should include a couple of sentences as a summary of the most important issues in the DVB-SH article. Mange01 (talk) 09:55, 26 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Dvb-h → DVB-H — From User:Mange01, The article should be moved back to its original name, DVB-H, after someone tried to rename it to a number of other complicated names. This is in accordance with related article names such as DVB-T, DVB-C, DVB-SH, etc. I am completing this request and have no opinion on the matter at this time. —JPG-GR (talk) 01:36, 27 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Survey
Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with*'''Support'''or*'''Oppose''', then sign your comment with~~~~. Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.
There could be also the necessity to delete the other articles redirecting here, which were created with uncommon names. They are (in order of uncommonness):
Please don't redirect DVB-SH articles to the DVB-H page. DVB-SH is a standard completely on its own, and even though it is influenced by DVB-T/H, it actually adopts elements from DVB-T/H, DVB-S2, and the 3GPP2 (3G) telephone standards. The DVB-SH article may be misleading in that sense, but that is a problem of that article. Consequently, it is also inappropriate to declare DVB-SH as a standard derived from DVB-H in Template:Table_Digital_video_broadcast_standards. I may update various DVB articles one day when I get to it, as many of them contain quite a bit of misinformation.
I updated the Modeo section. I also added the MediaFLO info; seeing as that is the only Mobile TV standard being used in the USA right now. But I'm sure the Wiki Gods will delete my updates, as they always do..... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.156.16.211 (talk) 17:31, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Several of the external links were removed (which was reverted, and then reverted again). However, I suggest that at least the following should be kept:
DVB Fact Sheets including Fact Sheets covering DVB-H, DVB-SH and DVB-IPDC
I think the first two should be kept, they come from the "father" organization of DVB-H and from the official regulatory body. The third one is problematic: should we also link, in the relevant articles, a list of DVB-T/DVB-S/DVB-C TV sets, too? --Cantalamessa (talk) 17:15, 27 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There is no reason to not keep links to relevant documents from the DVB group, which is the developing organization, and ETSI, which defines documents by the DVB group as European standards. So the first two references should definitely be in!
(A more direct link to the DVB-H fact sheet may be more useful: [11])
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